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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.02 19:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 02/04/2008 19:25:43
 Originally by: Tarminic
So can you please explain to me how 8 destroyers and an interdictor can kill a Vagabond (assuming that the pilot has a brain stem)?
He'll tell you but you have to sign up for the Agony Unleashed course to find out.
(I think Rells is a straight shooting [figuratively speaking] guy near as I can tell but honestly my first thought was this was a rouandabout way to promote Agony Unleashed courses)
And yeah...something seems wrong when you need nine ships to kill one T2 cruiser not to mention even with that many senior players are still puzzled how you manage it. Perhaps more to the point why some here think having to dig up nine ships to kill one cruiser is a balanced mechanic.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.02 21:17:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Xaen
Not for soloing, but you don't need a recon. It will effectively shut down 2-3 nano cruisers at once. Probably eight frigates.
Vaga is still invulnerable. Even when his cap is gone he can still ride out the current cycle of his MWD and then coast which should easily get him well beyond any trouble and then he can warp away.
If you did that to a (say) Sac or Eagle they'd be dead in short order.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.02 21:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
But it also makes perfect sense that small scale combat be done by lighter ships who can use speed or cloaking to dodge dangers and survive where a heavier force would be pinned down and destroyed in short order.
So if I want to do what makes sense I have to train to fly Vagabonds? Is there some reason all my training for Amarr pretty much goes right out the window? Would it not make sense that each race had something useful to put on the field instead of picking one or two ships as the only viable choice?
Can you not see there should be balance here? That the only answer to killing a Vaga and such needs to be another Vaga or a Huginn (also Minmatar)? Every setup should have downsides and this really doesn't. Yeah they are paper thin but their speed is their tank and that is more than sufficient to keep them safe...more than safe. If they were so easily killed they would not be nearly as popular as they are.
Give Amarr a viable way to zap them.
Give Caldari a missile that can hit them.
Give Gallente a drone that can catch them.
I am by no means saying all ships should be able to whomp them but each race should have some reasonable options available to compete. Some setups the Vaga would wail on those it faces. Others the Vaga would get stomped. Pretty much the way most of the rest of EVE is.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.02 21:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Is there some reason all my training for Amarr pretty much goes right out the window?
Curse? Sacriledge? Zealot? Absolution?
All can be fitted for speed. The first two are among the ships that people whine about the most when it comes to fast ships.
The Caldari are the only ones that are really lacking when it comes to fast heavy assault or command ships. I think the Cerberus is pretty much it, and it's not as good as the Sacriledge.
All fine ships although a fast Abso? It's base speed is 150 m/s (same as a Typhoon battleship I might add) and is around 30% more massive.
Actually none of them approach a Vaga in speed, not one can catch it and I seriously doubt one could get tracking on a Vaga to shoot it not to mention issues with MWD and Amarr ships and lasers and cap. A Curse is dangerous enough to a Vaga to make the Vaga pilot stay away but a Curse would never kill a Vaga unless the Vaga pilot screws-up badly.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.03 00:07:00 -
[5]
Originally by: hylleX
Its bothers me alot that people wont even try to think before hitting the forums and crying neeerf!
Hmm, since when does a nanogang pwn anything? it doesnt take vagabonds to kill other vagabonds. Ever heard of a ship called Curse, or maybe a lacheisis? And then we another one called falcon with a bigger brother called rook. There you go, the nanoships wont dare to approach you if you're in a curse, and can target you if you have a falcon/rook/lacheisis/arazu..
People is just to sad panda because their drakes and battleships cant kill nanosquads.
Fine. But how do you KILL a Vagabond?
Almost every other ship in the game is catchable (except maybe a CovOps but that is true of the whole class). CCP has said in the past that they want pilots to commit to battles. Essentially put their money on the table and risk it. They mentioned this when toying with carriers.
While you can run off a Vagabond it is damn difficult to actually catch it and kill it without another Vagabond.
All your examples above can prevent a Vagabond from engaging effectively (EW can do that to most anyone). None of it will kill a Vaga though whereas most other ships in EVE faced with that have a good chance at dying.
I think part of the issue is that Vagas seem darn near invulnerable as a practical matter unless you have a Vaga or maybe a Huginn with you. If they cannot kill you they can get away almost with impunity. I am not suggesting they should roll over and die to everything but they should have an Achille's Heel that every race can bring to bear against it. Ordinarily this is the way of EVE...some things you will own, other things will own you.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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